Why is waldorf school bad

I want to hear you argue your points, not see your ctr-c, ctr-v skills. Your perception that I am not using my own words is not borne out by the evidence.

In the Galileo quote that I provided, that you deleted, he said they are that. Newton, Descartes, the Cambridge philosophy department et al have said the same. In your answer, please take into account modern physics ideas of how 1 spacetime might be subjective experiences of deeper realities in a holographic universe, 2 complex physical conditions such as colour and sound can be reproduced, measured and processed by artificial systems.

Good luck. The question is not can you delineate this properties — but how do you provide an objective method for doing so so that independent people could come up with the same list. Are you having problems understanding this? I think he has trouble understanding what you are asking. He keeps repeating his beliefs ad nausem: he thinks that he has shown something- but no, nothing at all. Yet, the pot calling the kettle black!.. I think you may have reached a point where your prejudice is interfering with your reason.

The desperate need is yours. That you feel you are being indulgent by allowing a debate to continue is your grandiosity. That you need to put down my posts by calling them cut and paste points to your core insecurity and low esteem. Andy, good on you that you challenge continuously these claims, that claim to be scientific- but in essence, we know, they represent a dogmatic ideology.

I am not worried, Brandolini is great! All I see, is that you keep repeating the same belief ad nauseum, without any evidence — only what you believe about this. You keep saying, you have shown- yet you have shown nothing ad nauseum. I believe that you believe that you have shown something — but no.

Andy says books may not be quoted from and has deleted my short quotes from The Metaphysical Foundations of Modern Science by EA Burtt for the second time, so readers will have to buy it for themselves to see the evidence from page 85 which refutes his claim.

I did so with a quote on and by Galileo. You deleted it. And so you choose to protest rather than actually attempt to answer the question posed. Do you want to keep digging? I protested my quote had been deleted. I pointed out this meant those wishing to see it had to get the book. You called that childish. The hole is yours. I said the primary secondary quality distinction has been the bedrock of physics since Galileo.

I quoted Galileo showing it has. He deleted my quote and said I have to show it in my own words! Was I there? Am I supposed to invent words as if I was? What did he have in mind when he said this? Galileo is not the arbiter of what is physics. To show such a concept is the bedrock of physics you should show current undergraduate textbooks that start with this concept as the foundation for such study.

I said it was a bedrock from Galileo. Quoting Galileo showed that it was for Galileo. This is obvious; it only nonsense to you because you are playing games, and trying to avoid facing the fact that your behaviour deleting my comment was absurd. Galileo thought the tides were caused by water sloshing around as the earth span.

He was wrong. Quoting Galileo does make a proposition true. And I note you concentrate on this indefensible line of argument rather than answer the simple question I set you that would establish if you knew what you were talking about.

I shall draw appropriate conclusions from that. Parents around the world realize the bamboozle. His antagonist is Ahriman, the god of darkness. To balance these two opposing forces, Christ comes to earth as a sun god. This pairing of Jesus and Lucifer as the father and son, are bound to create discomfort in most believers in Christianity. It can certainly create a level of discomfort even to those considered Atheist or Agnostic.

Waldorf Teaching is based entirely on the philosophies of Rudolf Steiner, a man closely associated with Aleister Crowley among other high level Occultists, Satanists and Secret Lodge members. No, you are, and you are playing games now presumably to try to distract from your absurd behaviour and the fact you lost the argument. Still no answer to my question or acknowledgement of the obvious problem of quoting someone hundreds of years ago to establish a current position. You are playing games, because you lost the argument.

Some of you people are all very funny and full of egos! It is a wonderful way of learning and for me, a most enjoyable experience. Sadly, it has now become a school for the rich and elite — I wish I could afford to send my children to Waldorf because the public educational system is so incredibly broken.

That is all — just a happy former Waldorfian:. Game playing. Narcissism is primarily a disease of the emotions. This damages their reasoning and affective faculties and makes them delusional. A religious narcissists will use religion to try to control others, a scientific narcissist will use science. Although I do fear you are engaged in some projection here — a common defense mechanism for narcissists.

So, indeed, this is my blog and I will control comments to try to keep things on course. You started off badly, but it has been interesting to watch you wriggle. So, no more bar room psychology. You brought up a subject and have been asked some questions to show that you can justify what you believe. But instead on answering you attack and bluster.

I think this is a losing position. You still have the chance to answer these precise questions which I will now summarise…. Long time no hear; interesting you found my physics epistemology debate. Back around we debated this on Waldorf Critics — you began to understand the primary-secondary quality distinction and how it underpins physics….

Here you are worse and go straight to attacking me. Attacking the messenger is a trait of narcissism. You are an absolute hero of this conversation. You were patient, tough, clever, on-point and overwhelmingly more well-informed and self-aware than others, even though since your first comment everything you said was essentially discarded and ignored. Excellent insights, excellent attitude, powerful example of a good writer on the interwebs.

Future belongs to you. Thanks, Michael. This hollowness maybe why his blog has died away. Back around , we debated this on Waldorf Critics — you began to understand the primary-secondary quality distinction and how it underpins physics…. Love Waldorf. Second child now following the curriculum. Public schools have become nothing more than propaganda machines that do very little to educate children.

You are stating your opinion as though it is fact. Waldorf promotes community and families participating and being apart of the school. Oh and bringing up vaccination is so typical..

How many adults do you know get their boosters? Do you grocery shop? Go to restaurants? Guess what.. Good news is? I went to Waldorf for three years before moving out of state and attending public school.

I learned more in three years at Waldorf than I did the entirety of high school. The author of this article is clearly bitter and resentful with an axe to grind. It would appear also the author ran out of ideas at six and began grasping at seven; the last few points on the list are irreconcilably dishonest and intellectually lazy. Much of your writing about Waldorf schools is false. Waldorf schools are progressive and have continued to change and evolve over the past one hundred years.

Steiner was also a product of his time and his ways of thinking changed until his death. Research continues to inspire educational methods in all types of schools and Waldorf is not exception. New research often aligns with the Waldorf methods in the child-centered approach. Reading instruction is different but by third grade students are right on track and often advanced in reading and most Waldorf children love reading so much that it is viewed as a joy versus a chore.

By sixth grade they generally are all advanced in reading. Brain research has shown that on average the human brain is ready to grasp reading best by age nine. Waldorf schools today are striving to become more diverse and inclusive and in no way agree with the thoughts of racism that existed years ago. The problem is the lack of evidence. For example, can you name any educational insight that Steiner proposed that has been proven false and so dropped by the schools? And can you name any modern research result that has been adopted by the school movement?

Andy — thank you for your continued posts about quacko-stuff. It is an important series of topics. People are too easily led down paths harmful to self and family by anecdotal evidence or just plain lies.

You are lucky to live in the UK which seems to insist on truth in advertising. Here in the US, we are surrounded by wild, unprovable claims from chiro-quacks, homeopaths, naturo-quacks, and all sorts of get-rich-quick types of multi-level-marketing schemes, sometimes hiding under the guise of religion. Too many quacks are protected by our damaged legal system which puts the person with the most money on the winning side of every court case.

From my perspective the viewpoints in this article are highly biased and, frankly, do not hold up under scrutiny. My children are Waldorf graduates, in their 30s, and two of the most balanced, integrated adults one is likely to meet. A high percentage of their Waldorf classmates from decades ago are faring in a similar manner in life. Name another educational system that can prove such consistent claims about their graduates years into their adult lives.

This is not the result of quackery or luck, but of sound educational practices. One could take the claims of the author of this article one by one and logically unravel their flaws. Krishnamurti himself understood this twenty years later when it came time for him to assume the mantel of leadership that the leaders of the world Theosophical movement tried to lay onto him, and he renounced their intentions, becoming instead a fiercely independent spiritual teacher for many decades following this event.

Steiner had merely insightfully seen where this tragedy was heading, and called it for what it was. As a result, he and his colleagues in the German Theosophical Society were expelled from the world Theosophical movement.

Steiner embraced the opportunity to create a new organization of the arts and research which became the Anthroposophical Society, an international organization still vibrantly functioning to this day.

So much for point 1. The other points are likewise built up around misunderstood or misrepresented information. Perspectives need to be presented in a balanced way that stands the test of scrutiny, without put-down, ridicule, or bias. If a reader of this article and of this comment is interested in the truth about Waldorf education, visit a Waldorf or Waldorf-inspired school, or read a bona fide book about the approach.

No conspiracy, no quackery, just solid holistic education changing lives for the better. What is wrong with you people? Why is it so necessary to try to convince people who disagree with you that you are right? Let them be wrong, and hope they will also allow you to be wrong. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Previous article. Next article. To John Stumbles. Thanks for posting and it is always healthy to hear other views. Hello Andy Thanks for your reply. I would like however to offer a couple of observations. Thank you! Parents who ignorantly expose their children otherwise are abusing them. MCnP, changing the subject and attacking me does not address my argument.

Ted — I am reminded that you should never play chess with a pigeon. And I remember that those who talk down to others do so to compensate for their insecurity. I look forward to your response. You have not answered my question.

Secondary — time, colour, sound, pressure touch. Your other questions are not relevant to the argument.

It is. From couple of days ago, the nonsense just get bigger and bigger. Ted — I ask you to use your own words — not cut and paste — grow up. You need to get help.

While some of our Waldorf experience was good knitting, baking, etc. This is not what I was led to believe prior to enrolling our children. I understand this now. If I had known this before we would not have joined. I kept saying, 'This is a violation of her civil rights. Anthroposophy is more important than individual rights, laws, or common truths. The healthy teachers were eventually run out [of the school] and the ill ones took over hiring There was deceit everywhere The financial statements were literally made up Unpaid payroll taxes, marked as paid, were seized from our bank account One classroom was red-flagged for sewage backing up in the tub Board meetings were always exhausting because you could cut the tension between the teachers with a knife I think it's easier to walk away from Waldorf when Anthroposophy doesn't speak to your spirit, but it still isn't easy.

I took 63 families with me to [create] a new school My aim was to make a school like we were told Waldorf was but was not. Sixty-three families were ready to move, so I went back to work. After many months of frustrating communication with the school, we placed our Waldorf educated son in public school During my last meeting with his Waldorf teacher, I stated that perhaps Waldorf was inappropriate for him.

She replied, 'It sounds to me like you are questioning Anthroposophy. If you are, you should leave, because every teacher here is an Anthroposophist except for one, and she is coming to Anthroposophy.

Who normally writes such poems, except distraught lovers? This explains the hazy feeling that alumni of these schools often express. They feel that they were recognized there as they have never been recognized again anywhere else. Something in them keeps a nostalgic memory of a time when their souls were supposedly seen with such clarity by their teachers. In principle, when someone unveils your inner being — which is a pretty rare experience — this creates a lasting connection.

When people see deeply inside each other, they will always matter to each other. But then students fall out of the clouds when they realize that their teachers have not really understood them but have only pretended to see deeply inside. This can create a terrible disillusionment at the core! It is better to make mistakes on your own than to have ideas put into your head that blind you The most important thing is to be sincere with yourself.

And to think! That is the true dignity of the individual. And that is what the Steiner-Waldorf schools infringe, imposing their own visions! The evil comes in not giving children the tools to evaluate those ideas later. To steer them by subtle indoctrination is a violation of their consciences.

Conditioning their minds to welcome a special conception of the world is an attack on their free will. It destroys their future ability to think as adults. In addition, the students are placed in a position of unconscious opposition to the ideas and values of the rest of society. For Steiner, the school and the teaching he founded are direct emanations of the spirit world, they are true incarnations of celestial Anthroposophy, a pure gift of the gods In other words, the creation of this form of education results from divine action Steiner is the prophet of an educational revelation for them!

Their schools therefore manifest the presence of the divine on Earth. Indeed, Steiner-Waldorf teachers place the highest possible value on dreamy and mystical attitudes. As a student, I indeed could see how our teachers showed the highest esteem for those who retained longest the attitudes of gullible children transported by imaginative stories.

The student who seemed to be in a dreaming state was placed on a virtual pedestal in comparison to his peers. Later, as a teacher, I often heard teachers in faculty meetings praising the receptive qualities of students who were dreamy, naive, and enthusiastic. It was said of such students that they knew how to keep the soul intact and pure. We often even said that in principle a good Waldorf education should slow the maturation of students' intellectual faculties as far as possible.

In addition, teachers flattered and lavished praise on students for abilities they didn't really possess, trying to keep them as long as possible in a sort of "floating" disconnection from reality. This is why the egos of students leaving Waldorf schools are so developed. At first sight, these students seem to have a self-confidence that could be considered a good quality. But looking more closely, we very often see that this colossal self-assurance is based on nothing but empty air.

Quite often these students have done virtually no academic work for years: Rituals, religious chants, and preparing for holidays takes up so much time in Waldorf schooling that the time devoted to actual school work is literally reduced to a trickle. Having been in some way seduced by their teachers, these students may try to proceed through seduction.

That is why their results for the baccalaureate exams in writing are so pathetic, although the same students can be tremendously good at oral presentations. Of course, extension of the dream state greatly facilitates the ability to later become a Anthroposophist, as this mystical doctrine overwhelms those who plunge, as I did, into abstruse metaphysical speculations. Anthroposophical mysticism is a kind of natural extension of the dream state that is overdeveloped in Steiner-Waldorf institutions.

Overdevelopment of the ego aids individuals who tend to arise in life lecturing or even becoming gurus. Later they may find, in the context of the Anthroposophical Society, the roles of spiritual guides, the roles they are in fact familiar with from their childhood.

It is therefore common to find students in Steiner-Waldorf schools who systematically and blindly trust their own feelings, or hunches, sometimes up to the level of considering themselves apprentice mediums. Indeed, in these schools, misleading state officials is commonplace. Then the students are asked to 'play the game' in the presence of the inspector, and to act as if the teacher who conducts their class [this day] is their regular teacher.

Similarly, it may happen that there are health and hygiene inspections. I remember one time when the inspectors had to check how the children ate in the canteen. However, in this school, the children did not eat in a canteen but in classrooms with their teachers who watched them and made them recite their prayers before meals. For this inspection, the teachers were notified 24 hours in advance, so we organized three successive meal services in a canteen for the students, so that everything appeared normal.

In the evening, during a faculty meeting, teachers congratulated themselves that their students had 'played the game. They subtly teach the students that the rules and laws of the society at large are not so good This is likely to strengthen their students' feeling of living in a world apart. Anthroposophists view anything that does not belong in the 'milieu of Anthroposophy' as 'the outside world,' so to the students the general society in which they live becomes, for them, the 'outside world'!

In fact, it is more than that. Waldorf schools are actually about Anthroposophy. This reason is not to educate or even benefit the students; it is to spread Anthroposophy:. The reason many Anthroposophical schools exist is because of the Anthroposophy, period. It's not because of the children. It's because a group of Anthroposophists have it in their minds to promote Anthroposophy in the world Educating children is secondary in these schools Educating children is looked upon in much the same way Anthroposophical spiritual concepts are embraced: children are 'temperaments' or 'stages of human development'; they're vessels for [the] purpose of receiving cosmic wisdom in the form of an Anthroposophical curriculum.

One could go even further and say children in an Anthroposophical Waldorf school are looked upon as 'the future initiators of the Christ Impulse' [i.

Anthroposophy is an apocalyptic philosophy, and anthroposophists are quite consciously preparing the groundwork for the incarnation of [the arch-demon] Ahriman, for the development of Sorat [i. Conflict is a particular type of ecstatic union: the spiritual feast. I witnessed many teachers who literally went out of their way to create issues if it happened to be too slow a month, problem-wise. All ". It's all seen and understood as part of the great spiritual sacrifice — and you can't fault or fire someone so deeply spiritual and ultra-committed, can you?

Those families are looked upon as uncommitted to the great spiritual task at hand, or as karmically incompatible and so forth. And everyone else stands by and watches. Only a demon would confront the Angels of education Waldorf teachers. Hopefully, they will be able to spot demonic children with pinpoint accuracy like this one could. I hope to file a case with the attorney general, besides my own lawsuit.

I was finally able to get her out of [X] by the 9th grade The state of California is footing the bill for my daughter's health care and schooling I hope to get the attorney general involved to recover the taxpayer dollars that [X] should pay — and to investigate what happened to my daughter.

I have a paper trail a mile long pointing out what happened and the lies that were told to cover things up. There is gross negligence here, conspiracy to commit fraud, and a whole lot of other crimes by various people. To be honest, I did see some wonderful things; beautiful classrooms, art work, story time Waldorf educational philosophy states that focusing children's learning on intellectual endeavors too soon distracts from their physical, spiritual, and emotional development, so reading, writing, and math are not taught at all during preschool.

Instead, emphasis is placed fantasy, imagination, storytelling, rhyming, and movement games I wanted to teach children to learn to think for themselves; to analyze, synthesize, and extrapolate information as opposed to simply regurgitating it the way it is done in more traditional settings. What I soon found out was that children were simply regurgitating in the Waldorf settings Only instead of taking a standardized test or filling out a worksheet, in Waldorf it was copying a drawing or memorizing a poem.

Although this was esoterically more pleasing to the casual observer, in essence it was still superficial learning. Their parents were told that exposure to anything non-Waldorf would hurt their development A first grade boy loved numbers. He had a firm grasp of numbers Yet he was forced to sit and draw numbers and then animals to go with those numbers one dog, two cats I was told that it was OK for him to be bored I was once berated for over an hour because a preschooler drew a happy face What in your right mind would make you think that such a thing would be allowed?!?!?

The school's way of handling this was to ask the parents not to bring the child to non-Waldorf activities until she was older. This generally leads to greater intrinsic motivation in the sciences and stronger social skills [1]. For many of us, this sounds like a great idea. We generally believe that children should be protected from academics at a young age and that the world puts too much pressure on children. But there are many parents who also want to make sure their parents compete academically with their peers.

For example:. The Steiner-Waldorf approach has from its early days focused on natural environments. The walls will be full of artworks made by the children themselves. Technology is generally avoided up until about age 7. Even after this, technology is de-emphasized.

Waldorf schools prefer to focus on being in the present, using tactile objects, and social interaction. But, we live in a world where just about every job requires technological skills. Many middle-class western children are using tablet computers from a young age even learning fine motor skills through navigating touch screens.

As technology becomes more and more integral to 21 st Century life, the gap between unplugged Waldorf schools and tech-engaged mainstream schools widens. There has been a long-held public perception that Waldorf schools tend to have high rates of unvaccinated children. The reasons for low vaccination rates among Waldorf children are likely multiple and complex, but among them are:.

I suspect at least one or more of the above points would be challenged by many parents who send themselves to Steiner schools. In fact, Waldorf school tend not to give guidance either way on vaccinations [5]. Rudolf Steiner — , the German father of the Waldorf philosophy, had very uncomfortable views when it came to issues of race. In other words, white people were more intelligent.

Second, he believed in a racial hierarchy. You can climb the hierarchy through reincarnation.